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Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
159
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Posted - 2013.05.15 06:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
mechtech wrote:100m isn't that harsh of a death penalty. That's 1-2 hours for a vet who has no good source of income, and damn near inconsequential for many 100m sp players. Honestly, I've played many "carebear" fantasy MMOs with harsher death penalties...
If you live in Nullsec then with ratting alone you'll make 20mil isk ticks (20mil every 20 min) and that's without doing anything special. With 2 toons ratting you can easily make double that or more and that's not including faction spawns or escalations.
I want to know where this guy PVP's because it sounds like he insta-dies every time he undocks (must be from Test :)). Anyway I'd like to give him a visit.
@ OP. You can certainly improve your chances. Fly logistics (you'll be behind the fleet and probably not in bubbles as often) or fly a command ship which are usually not primaried unless you're the FC and they know you because they're a hard target to kill unless you strip off some of their logistics first. That will improve your survival rate.
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Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
160
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Posted - 2013.05.15 08:30:00 -
[2] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:And once again someone advocates saving money on clones by locking yourself out of a whole subset of available ships.
I am seriously starting to think these people are so stupid that they forget how to breathe while typing their responses, and only when they finally notice their blue reflections in the forums' dark background on their monitors do they finally, desperately gulp for air.
Ah.... the smell of forum epeen in the morning.
Looking past the passive agressive answer, the advice is solid. If the op is really worried about losing his clone then he has options. I'm pointing out some of them but he has others, such as:
- to change his game. Move to low-sec or try out FW, where losing a pod is a rarity, - likewise (as already pointed out) make a choice of ship that isn't such an easy target - rat/mine (or whatever) a little more so he doesn't have to cry about being space-poor - Learn some of the passive isk making things in the game like PI that would easily pay for all the clones he loses in exchange for an hour of tending to planets in a week - create a Jita alt and do some semi-afk trading....
... .or any number of other ideas. The game is vast, his options are many but they boil down into two main ideas:
- reduce your risk of losing the clone if it's such a big deal - make more money so the costs are in line with your income
Making ISK in this game is dead easy but if his aversion to doing so is THAT big and he wants to pvp ALL the time then it's still possible to be space rich. Many alliances pay their FC's isk (or items like PLEX) for the work they do. He's played long enough so maybe it's time for him to step up his game and sit in the big chair....
I'm just saying. |
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
161
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Posted - 2013.05.15 10:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:30% reduction sounds nice.
Meh... clone costs are part of doing business. An uber skilled character can do a LOT and there SHOULD be a price involved for enjoying that benefit. Nobody should get front row seats for pocket change.
And frankly, if he's space poor in this game, it's not the clone costs that are causing that....
But ok.... He does have another option..... just don't upgrade it and pay in skill points instead of ISK. Eventually it will reduce the costs of his clones down to a level that he feels more comfortable paying.
I just don't think he should have it both ways ... He wants to fly an uber skilled character in PVP and then he tells us that if he does get podded then he want's it to not hurt?
Really. QQ no way. |
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
162
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Posted - 2013.05.15 11:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
Blitzalpha Khurelem wrote:there are some useless FC's out there who should wear the cost of some of my 150m SP clones
you know who you are
so my main is now byes byes in hs all warm and cuddly
Well.... this is actually a good point. If you have an expensive clone then you might not want to always PVP with it. Lots of fleet fights are so big that the FC doesn't even know everyone in their fleet, let alone how many skill points they have or which implants or how much money they have in their wallets.
Saving an individual's expensive clone just might not be the biggest goal of that fleet. In fact, depending on orders, winning the fight might not even be the biggest goal of that fleet.
and yes, some FC's are beyond bad. I'm not naming names but I think I've flown with the best AND the worst FC's in nullsec. One of them, in particular, had a bad habit of panicking and running away during a fight, leaving his entire fleet twisting in the wind with no orders and sometimes no idea that he even ran away. Another I know of got a 100 man battleship fleet wiped out in about 5 minutes and was so upset by what was happening that he literally turned off his computer and left us all to die....
so yeah... some FC's could do better.
That said, the people who bitterly complain about FC's are often the same ones who bitterly complain about bubblers not being perfect..... they're the very people who probably don't have the balls to sit in the FC's chair or to fly a bubbler.
I'm not saying the person I quoted is one of those but his comment does point to general pattern of behaviour I see:
Those who can, do... Those who cannot, complain. |
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
162
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Posted - 2013.05.15 13:29:00 -
[5] - Quote
Cipher7 wrote: I support cheaper or free clones.
1. It'll funnel that money into ships and mods helping the economy 2. More ppl will use low-grade implants as an acceptable pod risk
When ppl buy a 100m clone, that money doesn't go to any manufacturer or miner, it simply leaves the game, and also makes it so ppl have to do things they don't feel like doing in order to pvp.
Actually, I think that's the whole point of assigning a cost to being podded. An economy like in EVE needs currency sinks in order to function correctly and this is one of them.
To me the issue about podding is more about finding some kind of balance between risk and reward. While it's true that there is an effect of diminishing returns with continuing to train a highly skilled character, there can also be no doubt at all that a highly skilled character with better skills in gunnery, tanking, maneuverability etc. and presumably being piloted by a more experienced player, has a risk profile that diminishes over time.
In other words, they win more often, which they should.
But players who enjoy the benifits of winning more often should *also* feel the pain when they do lose, and that pain should be in proportion to the risk they ran of losing. So when you look at the "total risk" as the chance of losing mulitplied by the cost of losing then newer players have a higher chance of losing but a lower cost when podded and older players have a lower chance of losing but a higher cost. ....
I honestly think that CCP really intended this to be a "leveling" instrument so that newer players are not perpetually playing at a disadvantage, at least in terms of the normative ISK risk they run from PVP.
Is it the only way that leveling the risk/reward playing field could be approached? I don't know, but I think it is working more or less as intended.
Are the costs too high? I don't know. I don't have a pointy enough tin foil hat to see if the ISK-risk graph is level throughout the skillpoint spectrum. My feeling is that it can't be because pod costs continue to go up as PVP effectiveness levels out at higher skill point levels... but whatever compared to the amount of isk older players generally make, it seems like a drop in the bucket to me.
Do I think people are complaining about a non-issue? Yeah, pretty much. |
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
163
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Posted - 2013.05.15 15:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
addelee wrote: In a 1v1 fight, yeah you're correct. The high SP player should win due to experience and higher skills. However, for fleets this isn't true at all and there's always the case of being caught by a random roaming gang and being plain unlucky.
Well... noobish mistakes aside I hear what you're saying.
The issue isn't staying clear when we start mixing contexts. In one context, taking away podding costs wouldn't be fair to younger players, in another context younger players benefit too much from lower podding costs.
Maybe insurance payouts for ship losses could be adjusted by ratio of the character's skillpoints to the mean. Older characters would get less reimbursed and new characters more for the same ship.
That might work to make keep the playing field level as you lose more ships while skill points are low and you're still learning the mechanics.
dunno |
Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
163
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Posted - 2013.05.15 15:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:
Why do it by skillpoints? Why not by Net Asset Value?
Was this a serious question?
For one thing, you'd CTRL-A your hangar and contract everything to an alt before the op and cancel the contract after the op was over. There's just too many ways to get around that.
And that's aside from the fact that more than a few ships get destroyed every day and I wouldn't even want to think about what the database would have to do to calculate all that.
Actually, the more I think about it, the more I like the idea of using variable insurance rates to level the playing field. It's easy to calculate, the amount of isk sink is easy to adjust and it seems to address the issue of podding costs a little better than the current system.
Should it be coupled to skill points? dunno.... the current system is, so that's the direction I was thinking in.
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Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
163
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Posted - 2013.05.15 17:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
I can't help but to think about the op we had last night. We were on a gate waiting for a minute while I did something and some guys started jumping through the gate in pods and shuttles.
of course we blapped them all and one of the guys calls out on comms, "BRING ME SOME BACON.... MAMMA JUST COOKED SOME EGGS!"
What some of you are still not quite getting is that (at least how I see it) part of the reason for higher pod costs for vets was to level the playing field a bit so that younger players weren't perpetually disadvantaged by the mere fact that they were younger.
So ... suppose pod costs are zero for everyone. How you get that leveling effect back in?
I suggested moving it to insurance and got the comment that it wasn't fair because vets lose more ships and they shouldn't be made to pay more or take higher risks and blah blah.....
But it's not the vets who need to "catch up"
You want to find a way to "go easy" on new players at least isk wise while they learn how the game works, don't you? Maybe going hard on vets isn't the right way to go easy on newbies but there must be some way to get to a nice balance..
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